Clandestine masons

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Clandestine masons

Postby Wallens05 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:59 am

Not sure we're to put this at but could someone please in lighten me on the difference between clandestine and regular I get the jest but a little more knowledge would be nice. Thank you

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Re: Clandestine masons

Postby Winter » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:27 am

Others have described it better than I.

Clandestine Lodge
A body of Freemasons or of those improperly claiming to be Freemasons, uniting in a Lodge without the consent of a Grand Lodge, or, although originally legally constituted, continuing to work after its Charter has been revoked, is styled a Clandestine Lodge. Neither Anderson nor Entick employ the word. It was first used in the Book of Constitutions in a note by Noorthouck, on page 239 of his edition (see the Constitutions of 1784).
- Source: Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry

Clandestine Freemason
One made in or affiliated with a clandestine Lodge. With clandestine Lodges or Freemasons, regular Freemasons are forbidden to associate or converse on Masonic subjects.
- Source: Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry

Clandestine
In Anglo Saxon "helan" meant something hidden, or secret, a meaning preserved in "conceal;" "hell," the hidden place, is from the same word. Helan descended' from the Latin celare, hide; and on this was built the Latin clandestinus, secret, hidden, furtive. In English clandestine, thus derived, came to mean a bad secret, one that must be indulged in furtively. A secret may be innocent; it is merely something done without the knowledge of others, and nothing is more common; but a clandestine act is one done in such a way as to elude observation. Clandestine Masonry is a bad kind of irregular and unlawful secret society falsely claiming to be Masonic. In the Constitutions a Clandestine Mason is defined as, "One claiming to be a Free and Accepted Mason not having received the degrees in a Lodge recognized as regular by the Grand Lodge of the State of New York."
- Source: 100 Words in Masonry

Hope this helps.
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Re: Clandestine masons

Postby droche » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:17 am

Simply put, a regular lodge practices Masonry which follows the ancient landmarks and does ritual, ceremonies and follows other rules which are in accordance with recognized, established Masonry. A lodge which does not do these things is irregular.

A clandestine lodge or grand lodge is a lodge/grand lodge which can't trace its origin to a mother grand lodge.

A lodge may be regular, but clandestine. A lodge may be irregular but not clandestine such as those lodges under the Grand Oriente de France. There are many lodges under that grand lodge but we in regular, duly constituted Masonry consider them to be irregular because they admit atheists and women which violate the ancient landmarks.
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Clandestine masons

Postby Wallens05 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:20 am

Thanks guys it help that always bogged my mind with the regular irregular labels and such. How do you know if one is clandestine and do they know or have the same information as a regular lodge?

Steven
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Re: Clandestine masons

Postby songdogshooter41 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:34 am

In our lodge, as I am sure in all lodges, when a visitor comes to lodge, they are tried, and their dues card is examined. Part of the examination of the dues card is done by taking it to the secretary who finds the lodge # in the book given by the GL stating what lodges are recognized by the GL. If the lodge is not found in the book, the visitor is not allowed to enter a tyled lodge, and masonic communication can not be held with the visitor.
Hope this helps.
I am sure that your GL website also could provide you information on what Lodges are recognised.
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Re: Clandestine masons

Postby 3DistinctKnocks » Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:39 pm

Moderator's note: I moved this topic to the General Masonic forum.
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Re: Clandestine masons

Postby jaya » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:33 pm

There can only be 1 recognized in a jurisdiction unless there is mutual agreement between grand lodges. That is how PHA and mainstream lodges interact. Everything else is considered clandestine. This is why I try to help someone joining a lodge by giving them links to regular grand lodges in their state. There are many grand lodges that are considered clandestine. The really sad thing is that many of these can not visit outside their grand lodge and they do not tell prospective members this so they do not find out until to late.

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Re: Clandestine masons

Postby droche » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:54 pm

Wallens05 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:20 pm wrote:Thanks guys it help that always bogged my mind with the regular irregular labels and such. How do you know if one is clandestine and do they know or have the same information as a regular lodge?

Steven



Each grand lodge in regular and duly constituted Masonry issues a publication which lists all the known lodges and grand lodges in the world. Every lodge should have one. It will state whether the lodge/grand lodge is regular and/or clandestine and if it is recognized by the grand lodge printing it. In Massachusetts the publication is called The Tyler's Manual. The Tyler uses it to ascertain if visitors come from a recognized lodge. Members use it to check if a Lodge they want to visit is recognized.

If you want to visit a lodge and there is a question about it, always check with your Grand Secretary's office before going.

Anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's whether an irregular or clandestine lodge has the same information as a regular and duly constituted lodge. I have never been in one so I wouldn't know.
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Clandestine masons

Postby Wallens05 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:55 pm

Thank you all for the enlightenment I feel I now understand the. Deference and the way to act when it arises.

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Re: Clandestine masons

Postby MasonicBookworm » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:52 pm

On a PHA note (I guess I'm the lone token PHA guy this week...), we typically take care to confirm these things before we visit another lodge, and our Mainstream counterparts are careful to do this with us. Even though in our jurisdiction we share recognition with each other and are in Amity with on another. In PHA, it is less likely that we would "show up" at a lodge unannounced. There is no need to have an embarrassing moment where the officers of a lodge are not sure about your recognition status.
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